Monday, August 23, 2010

Response to a Libertarian from a Libertarian

This post is a part of several extended exchanges on the Ron Paul web site concerning the subject of the propose Mosque.

Those of us opposed to the Mosque have seen our persons attacked and a vicious attack on Christianity from some of the commentators. The following post is only one part of all the exchanges. They can all be read, if you have the stomach for it, at:
Here's the post:

Mark Trance wrote:
“Whanker, zealot fanatic hater freaks. Go crawl back under your medieval stone. you mistake the ongoing argument to maintain the constitutional foundation of seperation of church and state as an attack on christianity. Get a grip on reality. You have been mind raped and it has made you a rabid, frothing, reactionary animal. More willing to snap and bite thanto consider and reason. Unfortunately you are not alone..”

Personally, I think “Trance” is the perfect name for you, Mark, for you are apparently in that state of unreality characteristic of a true ideologue. You indignantly accuse us of bigotry who have done nothing more than point out the history of Islam, it’s cruel and draconian legal system (Sharia), its consistent hegemonic and imperialist behavior, its past and present ruthless suppression of competing ideologies and religions wherever it gains the upper hand: ALL of which is empirically and historically verifiable using completely unbiased sources– for pointing out those facts we get the brilliant counter argument that we are “zealot, hater freaks and rabid, frothing, reactionary animals.” You say we’re “more willing to snap and bite than consider reason.”
Even though it never occurred to me to begin a post with, “Wanker, zealot, fanatic hater freaks!”…
But I guess that’s not “snapping.”
Your post is beneath contempt, not to mention, just plain juvenile. But I’m going to set all that aside and excuse it as the foolishness of youth—or, if you’re old, just someone who was unable to get over the 60s.
So, I’m going to try to make a respectful reply.

So, Mark, just for the record I’d be happy to consider reason, IF I ONLY GOT SOME AS A RESPONSE! But you’ll forgive me if I’m not impressed by ad hominem attacks.
For the record, (you can search my posts on this), I never brought up Christianity except in defense of the faith when those apparently ignorant of history tried to claim that Christianity and Islam share an equivalent history of violence. Balderdash!
For the record, I’m not the least interested in comparing Christianity and Islam, though I’m a Catholic Christian–a convert since 1982.
For the record I’m not interesting in the Constitutional issues that seem to me utterly beside the point in this whole kettle of Red Herrings.
I’m actually not interested in making any claims or assertions.
I am interested in us assessing our situation realistically and doing what must to be done to protect and preserve a society of Liberty.
So, I’m posing a question that has been heavily on my mind for some time now. I’ll pose it to you and anyone else who cares to read this, and in restating it, hopefully it will be clearer and will garner something more in response than a thumb one way or another.

Can a Liberty based society hope to continue to exist when groups of people within that society who hold philosophies and embrace ideologies that hate Liberty and despise individual freedom are allowed to do all they can, with no checks or restraints whatsoever, to use the systems and institutions of liberty to destroy liberty and gain power?

Put another way, I ask, is there anything in the Libertarian philosophy that can be used to protect and preserve Liberty from enemies from within? Or does the Libertarian have to look to principles outside of itself to preserve its own existence and protect those who live freely within its philosophic and ideological parameters?

You speak of reason, Mark. Okay, get started formulating a cogent answer to these questions, smart guy and see what you can do with reason to tame this “rabid, frothing, reactionary animal.”
For at this point, I fear American Liberty is in grave danger and those who embrace a strict and slavish libertarian ideology have no means whatsoever of effectively dealing with those here in America who despise everything lovers of liberty stand for and who are determined to destroy us by any and every means.
See if you can assuage my fears and concerns, smart guy.

Personally, I’m not sure a strict Libertarian philosophy or ideology has the means to preserve or protect itself, but can be easily gamed and destroyed. Every “ism” has a defect or weakness, perhaps the greatest weakness of Libertarianism is that it has no ideological means of defense, for it naively assumes everyone will appreciate and desire Liberty.

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